Full Podcast Transcript:
Holly Luky:
Hello friends, and welcome to another episode of our Management Insights Podcast from McGraw Hill. I'm your host, Holly Luky, and today we're excited to bring you a fresh new topic from one of our management authors, Dr. Beth Schneider, an associate professor of strategy at the McColl School of Business at Queens University of Charlotte, and co-author of Interpersonal Skills in Organizations.
Beth has spent her career helping people and organizations think more strategically, not just in the boardroom, but in their everyday lives. She holds a doctor of business administration from Durham University in the UK and brings more than three decades of experience teaching and consulting in strategy leadership and global business.
What sets Beth apart is her ability to translate big picture strategy frameworks into practical tools people can actually use, whether they're navigating a career transition, leading a team, or making tough decisions under pressure. She believes strategy and strategic thinking isn't just something organizations need, it's a mindset all of us can use to build more intention, resilience, and impact in our personal lives. She's here to help us rethink what personal strategy really means and how we can all move forward with greater purpose. Please welcome Beth Schneider. Welcome, Beth.
Beth Schneider:
Hi, Holly. Thank you. Thank you for having me today. I'm really excited to talk about this topic.
Holly Luky:
Wonderful. We're excited to discuss it with you. So today we're diving into a fascinating concept you've coined personal strategic fitness. Could you share the story behind what inspired you to develop this idea?
Beth Schneider:
Sure. So I teach strategy, which usually comes at the end of a program, whether it's the undergraduate program or it's graduate MBA program. And I've had a lot of discussions with students at the end of the program. And a lot of times they're looking at this transition in their life, and they're a little panicked. They go, what am I going to do? What's my future? Where should I be going?
And I realized that, from teaching interpersonal skills and writing the book on personal skills, I really started to understand that there was a strong connection between strategic thinking or a strategic mindset, which is really just thinking about three things. Where are you right now? Where do you want to go? And how are you going to get there? And so put this all together and started thinking, this is really strategic fitness for individuals, and thinking about your own personal life and how do you translate something that's for business into personal life?
And so that is where this whole concept came up. I've given workshops on it. This came up during COVID. I did some talks during COVID because people, again, were faced with this unbelievable event that was impacting everybody's lives. We never expected this. And everybody went, where do I go now? I'm also seeing this right now in our environment. So I think it's a great concept. And I put this together for people. I have worksheets, and I give them to any groups that I consult with, to my seniors. So I think it's just a better way to be able to look at your life and have a little bit more direction.
Holly Luky:
Absolutely. I know personally, I always try to think strategically. It's something that we talk a lot about in our professional lives, but for some reason we don't always bridge that to the personal side of things, although it completely applies, right?
Beth Schneider:
Yeah. I think emotions get in with our personal life as well. And so it takes away that kind of directive thinking and that strategic aspect. And so we need a way or a process that makes us pull back a little bit and sit back and think about what should we really be doing.
Holly Luky:
So when do you think this approach is most impactful? Is it best applied during major career shifts or big life changes? Or is this something that can be incrementally considered for any kind of decision making?
Beth Schneider:
Well, definitely when you have major decisions to make, I think it is very, very important. But if you really want to build an intentional life, I do believe that it's incremental. Constantly pulling back and just reflecting on what's going on in your life and how do I keep this process going? Because things change. Whether it's a major event, whether it's little events, maybe it's just a transition in your life, trying to think about what should we be doing? And this allows us to have maybe a continuous process. Because once you start doing this, you will recognize you get yourself into a pattern of behavior, always sitting back. And before you make any kind of decisions, big decisions, little decisions, you stop and think, what am I doing? Why am I doing it? And is this the right way to go?
Holly Luky:
Absolutely. I was reviewing your framework because you definitely have it broken down into really simple actionable steps, almost like a step-by-step guide for listeners to follow. And so since we're having this open discussion today, and we don't have those visuals, could you walk us through these components so anyone tuning in could take notes and perhaps start outlining their own process?
Beth Schneider:
Sure. So what you want to start with is you really want to ask that question, where am I right now? And what we do is we start look at the environmental aspects. So we're looking at the external environments. Now we're going to look at what's happening out in the world, what are the opportunities out there, and what are the threats? These are the two key areas you want to be aware of. Because opportunities are ways that you could change your life. You could reposition yourself. Maybe you want to change your career, or maybe you just want to do something different in your life. And so if you look at all the opportunities out there, it helps you to be able to see, this is where I could make great strides.
At the same time, you want to be looking at what are potential threats out there. Not that you want to be fearful, but just that you have awareness that these things might come, these things might impact me. And so if I'm prepared for them, they won't be devastating to me and my life. And so I look at those external environments.
And then you want to go through these processes of looking at you internally. And so you want to think about what's my mission and what's my vision? Okay, mission and vision. So remember that mission can be something simple. When people say, "I need to write a mission statement," it doesn't have to be this grand thing. It can be very simple. You don't have to be a great writer to do this. You can just sit down and think, what is my meaningful work? What do I want to do? What do I want my work to mean? And how do I want that to impact my life?
I want financial stability. I think everybody wants that. It's okay to say that. It's okay to say, what do I have to have and what will actually help me make sure that I maintain the stability that I want in my financial life? What time do I want to have for my family? Because it's not all about work and everything else that absorbs all your time. When it comes down to it, at the end of your life, you're going to look back and go, oh, I wish I would've worked more. No. I wish I would've spent more time with my family or with the people that I care about, my family and friends.
And so your mission can be extremely simple. But thinking about what is your mission? Because a mission is instrumental, how you live your life. And you also want to think about your vision. Your vision is where do you want to go? What do you want to accomplish? Because if we never set that standard, if we never set those goals, it is impossible to get there. And you're going to realize years have gone by, and you're still in the same place, and you haven't made that movement towards what you wanted to do. So that is just kind of sitting down. So that's really thinking about where am I right now? What's happening internally, what's happening externally? I have a good foundation. That's my starting point. That's point A.
And then the next step then is starting to think about where should I be going? Where could I be going? Where do I want to go? Based on my starting point, what is the next step that I want to take? And so that's where you're saying, okay, I'm managing my present. I've figured out, I've had deliberate actions, deliberate intentions, deliberate reflection of where I am right now. And then starting to think about where should I be going?
And so after my self-analysis, I really want to start thinking about my purpose and my values. And those come in and are very important. What is most important to me? What is my purpose in life? Write a purpose statement for yourself. Again, it doesn't have to be a grand statement that somebody's going to be able to publish. What does it mean to you? What is your purpose of your life? So that when you get to the end of your life, you can look back and smile and go, yes, I did what I wanted to do. I don't have regrets.
Holly Luky:
Oh, I love that. So I mean, I understand it from a broad perspective, but what would be the main difference between your mission statement and your purpose statement?
Beth Schneider:
There is a difference. Because your mission is where you are going. Your purpose is really why you exist.
Holly Luky:
Okay. Okay, got it.
Beth Schneider:
So it's going to give you that base of kind of that foundation of who I am, what I believe in, and why I exist. The mission-
Holly Luky:
Those values.
Beth Schneider:
Yes. And the mission then is a little bit broader. That it is helping you to say, what do I want? What is important? Because you have these instrumental values, and then you have your terminal values. Instrumental values are your how's, and your terminal values are your whats, what are you going to get to?
Holly Luky:
I really like that we're having this conversation right now because we're getting to the point where it's February, March, and people are probably reevaluating some of their new year's resolutions perhaps. And the vision statements or the vision, maybe if they're making a vision board for the new year, they might be at this point kind of taking assessment. Where have I come over the last few months? Am I on track to meet those goals? So I think this conversation will be really helpful for those of us that might be in that boat.
Beth Schneider:
A lot of people will do new year's resolutions. Now, the problem with resolutions that I have seen is it's temporary, short term, and it is not need-specific. So when you're thinking about writing your goal statements, what you want to do, they need to be specific, they need to be SMART goals. Have you heard that term, SMART goals?
Holly Luky:
Yes.
Beth Schneider:
They need to be-
Holly Luky:
But go ahead and outline it anyways because some might not.
Beth Schneider:
Okay. So it needs to be specific. You can sit there January 1, and go, I want to lose weight. Well, isn't that wonderful? Who doesn't? But if you don't make that specific, or get in better health? What does that mean? Does that mean losing 15 pounds? Does that mean lowering your blood pressure? What does it mean to you personally? And then put a number to it. So make it measurable. So it's got to be specific, but it's got to be measurable.
You've got to have a deadline. You've got to have a timeframe. Because indefinitely doesn't help you. So if you set up a schedule, you've got to figure out how is this going to be attainable? Do I need to go find people to help me? So when I go to grab that candy bar, I need somebody to go, "Oh, do you really want to eat that candy bar?" And maybe you stop and think about it, where your reptilian brain slows down for a minute and your thinking brain goes, you know what? I really don't need that. And it's not in line with where I want to go.
Holly Luky:
Right, right.
Beth Schneider:
So I think-
Holly Luky:
Yes, I appreciate that.
Beth Schneider:
... it's an important time right now. I know everybody thinks about it, but I think it needs to be incremental. It needs to be integrated into your life. And that's the problem. Because after January 1st, we get busy and those things get left on a shelf and they're never accomplished.
Holly Luky:
And some people like to make really long lists of goals and resolutions. I think that our discussion today will be really helpful to then go back and reevaluate those, and perhaps add on maybe some new ones based on how the new year may have actually started. We always come into it with a hopeful idea, and then it inevitably takes its own shape. And now we are at the place where we can maybe steer it down the right path.
Beth Schneider:
Yes.
Holly Luky:
So I know you also talk about formulation, where are you going? Implementation, how do I proceed? I was hoping we could dive into that one just a little bit more because I think perhaps that's where a lot of people get stuck with personal strategic fitness. As I mentioned, we're good at making goals. We're good at perhaps having those ideas. I think the implementation side is where... Obviously there's a lot of people out there that make professions out of helping you with this. So maybe you could help us understand that part a little better.
Beth Schneider:
Okay. So formulation is extremely important, but I just want to go back just a second.
Holly Luky:
Okay, sure.
Beth Schneider:
Excuse me. Implementation is extremely important, but I just want to go back a minute and talk about formulation, because formulation is where a lot of people skip steps as well. So when you start looking at formulation, you really want to ask yourself some questions. First you thought about where am I at? But formulation is then starting to think about an acronym called a GOST. Talk about a GOST. G-O-S-T.
So you need to write out your goals. And your goals need to be specific, measurable, timely, and realistic. You've got to write out those goals. Because you have to have a milepost that you can keep going to and going back to say, where am I at and have I done this? So you've got to set your goals. Goals are that long-term, where do you want to go? I want to accomplish X within three years, and this is going to be the result. I want to make it very clear.
But then I need to break the goals down because goals need to have you need to go and have objectives. So each goal should have multiple objectives. Because you don't go, all right, I want to lose 15 pounds by April, May. You set that. There you go. Now I'm making it more specific. I know I want to lose weight. I know exactly how much it is, and I know what that timeframe is. Well, you don't want to wait until May 1st, and then get on the scale and go, oh, I didn't accomplish that.
So maybe you break it down, and you start to go, here are my objectives. So I break it down into smaller increments. So by March 15th, I will be at X. I will have accomplished X. By April 1st... And you set down these objectives that you tick off in order to get to that final goal. Because by just setting a goal, it doesn't give you the practical steps you need in your everyday life to be able to actually get there. So this is the goals and objectives of your GOST.
Then you want to go through and you want to set up the strategies and tactics. So the goals and objectives are what, the strategies and the tactics are how. How do I make that happen? So I want to set up some strategies that are going to help me do this. So maybe it's going, okay, I've never done this before, but I'm going to create a grocery list for myself. Because I go into that grocery store, I'm hungry, and I just start buying things. So I am going to think about what is my menu planning? What is a grocery list that I need to have?
So now I'm creating all these tactics, the strategies, but then I have tactics that help me do this as well. And so really as a hierarchy of what I want to do. So my goals and objectives are what, my strategies and my tactics are my how. How am I going to do it? And then you can keep going back. It gives you this system to measure it to make sure you're still in line, and make sure that you are checking off the things that you want to do because implementation then is making it happen.
Holly Luky:
Right. Okay.
Beth Schneider:
Okay. And implementation is important as well. So I think how do you proceed? How do you put it into the day-to-day aspects of your life? So that would be breaking down if we're going with the losing weight or getting healthier, it might be meal prepping or those kinds of things. That's your implementation aspect of it.
Holly Luky:
Having some recipes and that guidance. Maybe it's just that external framework that you need to help guide you. Because I know a lot of people, myself included, I have these ideas, sometimes I just need a little bit of boost of the how-to, that kind of guidance and outline to get there.
Beth Schneider:
And I think another good example is your career and thinking about your professional life. I work with undergraduate students, seniors, undergraduate students, and I work with MBA students in their final semesters. And so if you're coming back for an MBA, you're probably looking at a career change, and you're trying to figure out what you are going to do. You're getting that education to help you with that career change.
But a lot of times they still don't know what they want to do. Even if you are a graduate student or an undergraduate student, where do I go? I just know I feel pressure that I need to get a job. And as you mentioned, in this environment right now with AI, with changes to the environment, with a lot of layoffs, a little bit of maybe recession happening, people are a little fearful, and they're looking at what are my career prospects?
And so being able to do this, set up a good analysis aspect for you, what are your strengths and weaknesses? What do you need to shore up? What should you be going out and getting? And then writing a GOST for yourself. What do you really want for your career? And then you can put the implementation there. And don't try to do it on your own. Part of implementation is getting support. People need to reach out. You need to ask for help.
Holly Luky:
And I think we need to hear that over and over and over again.
Beth Schneider:
Yeah, you're not in this alone. People are so fearful right now, almost to the point that they don't want to talk about it. They don't want [inaudible 00:20:55].
Holly Luky:
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Beth Schneider:
I see undergrads all the time who feel pressure from their parents to get a job. Okay. Just getting done with college. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? They're not sure. They took a major that maybe they weren't even certain of, or they even knew what the options were going to be once they got out of that major. And so they're just trying to figure out how do they position themselves a little bit and go through this process. And so I give this application process to all of them. I give it all in a big worksheet for them to be able to go through. Because I've taught them strategy for organizations. I then tell them, you can apply all of this for your own personal life.
Holly Luky:
Excellent.
Beth Schneider:
And to not be afraid. I know there's a lot of apprehension, but to not be afraid. I tell them the story of my own career. It was not a straight line. You can have bends and turns in your career, and it's okay. You can fall off track and you can get back on another road. It is perfectly fine. And I think in this time right now, when people are a little stressed and afraid of talking about it, you need to hear it's okay to be unsure. It's okay not to have all the answers. It's okay to reach out to other people and get help in your process. You're not alone. So you can do this for yourself, but get feedback from others as well.
Holly Luky:
Oh, that's so powerful. Thank you for saying that. I think all of us listening need to hear you say that to us as well.
Beth Schneider:
Yeah. I think from teaching undergrads for so many years, and teaching them in their final semesters, getting ready for graduation, I recognize the level of apprehension that they have. And I tell them, it is okay. And it's okay to constant... You can reach back to me at any point, even though you're not my student anymore. But understand, give yourself a break, give others a break. And a little bit of kindness and support goes a long way to helping you and everybody else get where they want to go in their lives.
Holly Luky:
Wonderful. Wonderful advice. So as people start to apply personal strategic fitness to their own lives, what are some common challenges or pitfalls they may encounter? I know we've kind of touched upon those with the new year resolution example, and how can they overcome them to stay on track?
Beth Schneider:
I think some of the biggest pitfalls that people have is confidence, is confidence.
Holly Luky:
Oh, wow.
Beth Schneider:
Confidence comes in when something doesn't go right. Because you think I put myself on a direction, on a track, I thought this was going to happen, and something comes in and throws you off. It happens to all of us. It happens to me.
Holly Luky:
Sure.
Beth Schneider:
And I have to sit back and really reflect and go, why am I doing this? Is it the right thing to do? And how can I reposition this to get started again? And so when you're looking at these pitfalls, a lot of times, I know it's financial. Financial is a challenge, money is a challenge. But looking at how do I think differently about it?
And that's one of the things that you do with a strategic mindset, is you don't think about just the straight path ahead. You have to look for alternatives. You've got to be creative. So creativity comes into it. Reach out to others. Other pitfalls that are out there that push you off, we get so bogged down in the what is right in front of us. We get bogged down into just this five foot view of life. It eats up all of our time and our energy. When it does, force yourself to sit back and think about the long term. How does it fit into that plan? And it's okay that it threw me off today, tomorrow I'll get right back where I was.
Holly Luky:
It sounds so simple.
Beth Schneider:
It's easy for me to say. And I will admit I have to do this for myself too. Sometimes you have these setbacks, and there's things that just push you to a point that you question, you question yourself, you question your direction, you question why you are doing this. And go back to what are my values? What's my mission? Use that as a foundation to say, okay, if all of this didn't go right, if this didn't go in the right plan, go back to your foundation of your mission and your vision and start over. It's okay. Reinvent it, change it. It doesn't have to be what you said at one point in your life. Lives change. Times change. Opportunities change.
Holly Luky:
Excellent advice. As we wrap things up, is there any other topic or element of your personal strategic fitness that you'd like our listeners to make sure they take away today that we haven't discussed?
Beth Schneider:
I don't think there's anything we didn't discuss. I just think that it's the mindset. Because I talk about strategic mindset. And I think that the important aspect is to constantly refresh yourself. We don't take enough time to go back and really just think about it and reflect on it. I think that's probably the worst problem that most people have. Because life does distract us. And so how do we start to live more intentionally is the most important aspect.
And if you take the strategic plan and you keep pushing yourself back... So you write it out and you lay it out, go back and look at it again. Make changes, make edits, getting that support and reaching out. We need to have more communities. We need to have more support from others, and realize that, yes, we are one person on this planet, but there's a lot of other people on this planet that are just trying to live their lives and get through it the best way they possibly can. And so having that grace for others and having a little grace for yourselves is a great way to be able to constantly be thinking about your purpose and doing things a little bit better.
Holly Luky:
I love that we do all need a little bit more grace in our lives. Well, thank you so much, Beth, for joining us today and sharing with us this topic on personal strategic fitness. How can our listeners get in touch with you if they'd like to learn a little bit more? What's the best way for them to find out more?
Beth Schneider:
If you want to find out more, you can always contact me at the university. I teach at Queens University, and so they can email me at the university. I do have this strategic plan laid out. Here's my problem. I have already laid out a draft for a short little book that I would be able to put out there and give to people. And so I just need to get myself some time to be able to get that together and work on it.
So while I might preach this, I am not perfect at this. So we are all a work in process. And so if you want to get in touch with me, I'm more than happy to do this. I do this for corporate organizations. I do this for civil organizations. So I am more than willing to reach out and talk to people, provide the resources, whatever is needed.
Holly Luky:
Excellent. Well, maybe we'll have to do a follow-up discussion then, and find out where this discussion goes after you do complete that project.
Beth Schneider:
Okay.
Holly Luky:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.
Beth Schneider:
Okay. Thank you, Holly. I really appreciate it.
