Catch Me if You Can Podcast and Transcript

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Greetings. This is Shanita Baraka Akintonde, professor, author, career coach, and marketing she-ro. I invite you to another special edition of my Marketing Insights Podcast, this one entitled Catch Me If You Can. And I'll talk about why that's the title of this podcast momentarily, but before we jump into that, it gives me great, great, great pleasure to introduce you to my special guest today. Her name is Missy Stella, and we could put an R on the end of that and make it stellar because that's the type of woman she is. Now, she's currently a senior recruiter at the LaSalle Network, but she says, "Shanita, be sure to share with the group that, prior to me becoming a recruiter, that I worked in the field." She hit the ground running as an advertising practitioner. She's going to talk a little bit about that in our conversation.

Now, even though she's on the other side of the fence, as we try to call it, on the recruitment side, it really helps her, and it's going to help you, that she has the experience of being both in the industry as a worker bee, so to speak, and on the other side, and has a panoramic view of what it takes for you, dear listeners, to either get your first job in advertising, or if you're a more senior professional or seasoned, I like to say, professional, how you may want to transition into a different area or position. And so we're going to delve into that today.

One more tidbit before Missy gives a little more about her background, which, let me just say, spans Chicago, New York, LA, this girl's been all over the place. She's got the energy of a rocket, which I appreciate, because you need that for a lot of reasons in advertising. But I want to say that I called this one Catch Me If You Can because, whether you are someone who's trying to start your career and catch, so to speak, that dream job, if you're in your position and feeling like you need to catch up because of AI and all this other stuff hitting the scene, Missy is going to talk to you about what it is you need to do so that you don't have to freak out.

Missy, welcome to the podcast, Marketing Insights, so happy to have you. Go ahead, honey, tell them whatever it is you want to start off with saying about yourself.

Missy Stella:

Thank you so much, Shanita. It was a great, great intro. Lovely to see you as always. Thank you so much.

As you mentioned, gosh, probably about 13, 14 years ago when I was graduating college, I got my start in advertising. I worked at two really large ad agencies in Los Angeles, where I worked on campaigns for clients like Dr. Pepper Snapple Group at the time, Taco Bell, Nissan. Got some really great exposure to working in the field, pivoted to going in-house as a marketing manager with a global real estate company, and then, after that, I realized, for me, my passion was with the people.

I absolutely loved being in that creative space, but my passion was the people in this space, and I've had the absolute distinct pleasure and honor to having been able to pivot my career to that in staffing and recruiting for the last 11 years, and coming up on my 11th year doing recruiting in the advertising, marketing, and creative space. And as you mentioned, started it in Los Angeles, was able to get some exposure to working with clients and candidates in New York, and now I'm here in Chicago, where I specialize in all things in the Chicagoland area. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here. It's my absolute pleasure to be here today.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Excellent. Now I'm going to paraphrase something that you shared with me in your bio, and it's that your love for people. I want to build on that. I believe, and again, this is a paraphrase, that you have a philosophy of being able to help anyone at any time get to any place. Maybe you can unpack that or clarify what your actual mantra is.

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. I think, for me, in our industry, when we work in staffing and recruitment, we're working with folks who, to your point, might either be looking to start their career or might be looking to pivot their career or maybe they want something different or something like that, and we're also working with organizations needing to hire. And at the end of it, we're all people. It's all humans sharing a very human experience. Being able to be a part of that human experience, whether it's someone looking or someone looking to hire is really exciting for me.

And, to me, it's the same experience, and at any given moment, someone who might be looking could then pivot to being the person needing to hire, and vice versa, that person needing to hire at any point in their career could then be the person that's looking. And both can also happen at the same time. Someone might be in a position where, hey, their company's hiring and they need to hire, but they're also looking and they don't know how to navigate the market. And it's just really exciting being able to be a part of that human experience in any walk of life. Most people have either had to look for work or have had to hire. It's really exciting that I get to be a part of a shared human experience, because every human has had to experience that, if that answers your a.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Yeah, I love that. I don't think I've ever heard it phrased as a human experience, and that's really important because it can be overwhelming. There are a lot of emotions that go through this, I'll call it, continuum to your career, from anticipation, excitement. Then there's frustration. We hope it doesn't get to desperation, but let's be real, when sometimes you're graduating from school, I'll speak for myself and those bills ... Well, let me say this, I'm proud to say I actually graduated from college debt-free, but I had anticipation of living a certain life, so I knew I needed money for that. You need a career and a job [inaudible 00:05:47].

Missy Stella:

Food is not free. Drinks are not free.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Food, [inaudible 00:05:49], gas for your car's not free. Can you talk to us about, okay, I'm a recent college graduate, Stella, and I am so concerned about what I need to do to impress someone like you so that I can get hired. What are some things that you would offer up that I could prepare myself maybe?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. I think about this is one thing I share to anyone who's currently in college, or even if they're not in college, but they're looking to enter into that workforce to start their careers, I cannot say it enough, internships and networking, getting yourself out there. The amount of times I have worked on a position for a client where they need to hire someone entry level, all they care about is do they have any previous working experience? Do they have the exposure? Have they worked in a business setting before? It doesn't necessarily matter, unless you're going for a very specific type of thing, within marketing, as long as you've done something, be it in an in-house marketing team or small company, large company, any kind of exposure you have is going to set yourself apart.

Now, for myself, I didn't get any internships when I was in college. I had to pay my entire way through college on my own. I actually had to work the entire time I was getting my degree. And so, because of that, I didn't focus on internships, but I was very, very blessed and fortunate that, throughout my entire college career and even after, I networked and I built relationships and I built a positive name for myself. And I just so happened to have met some amazing people who saw something in me and gave me an opportunity,, and I took it and it was scary because it was a contract and it was for two months, and I didn't know what was going to happen, but in advertising and marketing, we know that's a lot of the way you get your foot in the door.

And I took that risk and I trusted those above me who have set the path before me to trust them and to go for it. And if I wouldn't have done that, I would not be here today. I say that the easiest pathway to set yourself apart is to get an internship, but if that's not a possibility for you, you don't absolutely need that, but definitely network and set a good name for yourself. Your reputation will precede you.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Yes, that's excellent. Listeners, there is a previous podcast called Pathways to Career. Missy, you'll appreciate this. I interviewed, for that one, to members who participated in the Chicago Advertising Federation's webinar series that I host called Market Smarter, and go back and listen to that marketing maestros, because what Missy is saying in this episode, Catch Me If You Can, are two ingredients that we talked a little bit more about on that podcast, but this one, we're going to expand on it as well. That's networking and internships, not necessarily in that order.

Now, let me build on what Missy is saying about if you're not able to do the internships. I totally concur, if you can do an internship, do it. But here's the great thing about today, well, Missy's a lot younger than I am, but when I was in college back in the stone ages, we had a different setup in many ways. There was no LinkedIn and all these other fantabulous resource tools.

And I say that because, in an indirect way, use LinkedIn for both connections to network. You can even do it to what I call to have an internship for a day. Maybe you reach out to someone who you admire or you respect at an agency you want to work for and say, "Can I just have 15 minutes of your time?" If they agree to have you do it, go show up at their office. If you let them talk about themselves, it'll probably last an hour. And that can be considered, in a way, not officially an internship, but it's a networking opportunity so that you can expand your network.

Missy, what other pieces of advice would you give to someone if they can't do an internship per se, perhaps to still get them exposure to someone in the industry?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely, and you actually hit something right on the head that I was actually going to talk about. In this day and age, to your point, tools like LinkedIn or even networking groups, you can find in Eventbrite and all of these things, those are wonderful resources, which to your point, I also didn't have when I was starting my career. I came out many years after. Those are wonderful tools to be able to use.

But going back to that human piece, nothing beats a connection in person. I always tell folks that, if they have an opportunity to reach out to someone and say, "May I treat you to a cup of coffee and just pick your brain for an hour? I want to learn from you. I want to understand how you started your career," just that in and of itself, even though you're setting it with the expectation of, "I want to learn from you, I want to grow, I want to understand," when that person then might have to hire or when that person knows of an internship, if you've already built a relationship with them, they are 10 times more likely to suggest your name over a piece of paper that came through.

Building those relationships, community, connectivity, setting yourself apart, putting yourself out there, you can even use LinkedIn. I know a lot of candidates will do this. They'll reach out to me directly on LinkedIn and say, "Hi, Missy, I saw that you posted about this thing. Here's a little bit about myself. Here's why I think I'd be a great fit. I would love the opportunity to chat with you for 15 to 20 minutes more." I always respond to that person because they're taking that extra step. They're not just applying. They're taking that extra step and putting themselves in front of me. That just shows initiative, it shows grit, it shows excitement, and it makes me want to talk to them about that because they're excited, so using digital tools as well as to get to that, again, going back to the word human, that human connection.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Yes. And if you all are listening to this, marketing maestros, Missy's saying, when you show innovation, you show that you have persistence, you show that you have the ability to show up at these places physically and just say, "Hi, I'm here," or, "I'm following up on something that I saw you post." That, in many ways, I don't want to circumvent the importance of having a great GPA, and of course, doing well in your classes and all of that, but if you're listening, we haven't talked about grades yet, we haven't talked about things that are related. These are the skills that you persistently are able to show that are going to set you apart.

And so I really want to make that delineation as well because, as many students would come to me in the classroom and we'd have a discussion, I'll call it about a grade I may have given them on an exam or a test, and they freak out, "My GPA is 4.0 and it hasn't remained that way." Again, I'm not negating the GPA and the importance of doing your best in your classes. However, if you really want to get to the nitty-gritty, which Missy is talking to us about, the skills that are going to take you over the top are going to be these things that she's sharing with us now.

Missy, if we could create a persona of a person, and you can give her whatever name, or him whatever name, you want, and they had three things, three traits, maybe you've even seen this come across your desk, maybe it was in terms of the resume, they showed, their portfolio that you witnessed, their personality, they had green hair, I don't know, what can you recall in your long trajectory, and I know you've seen a lot of folks, Missy, you've talked to a lot of people, so this is probably hard to do, but can you think of maybe three things that you could say to the listeners that have stood out to you? And it doesn't have to be from the same person.

Missy Stella:

Absolutely, and that is actually a very easy question for me to answer, because the number one reason why I see candidates either terminated from their job, or maybe if they're working in a contract and they don't get converted, is if they don't show enough initiative. Going back to those soft skills that you talk about, over the past 10 years, and especially now, when there's a lot of competition out there and there's a lot of hard skills you can have and a lot of things you can learn and a lot of things you can bring to the table, the one thing, time and time again, that we have seen as the standout quality is someone taking initiative.

And what that means is, if you have a question about something, trying to figure out the answer on your own first before asking, trying to be creative, asking for more, "I'm done with my task, what more can I do? How can I help?", building relationships. Someone taking the initiative and having the tenacity. Those are two things, time and time again, we see as probably the top quality we look for. I would also say having really strong character, being reliable. If you say yes to accepting an interview, show up to the interview, even if it's not your dream job, even if it's you're unsure, showing up and putting your best foot forward. Clients remember when someone does not show up. Your name precedes you. I always advise people, even if it's not your dream job, even if you're scared, show up for the interview, and if nothing else, it's practice that's going to set you up for success on that next one.

But, yes, I would say initiative, tenacity, and reliability. Those three are outside of what you see on a resume. Those are the core skills that set someone apart and will set them up for a faster promotion, a faster track to make more money. Those are the key qualities almost every hiring manager I work with looks for.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Excellent. As you were saying that, something else crossed my mind. You and I are soul sisters. I saw you when we met initially. Again, your personality precedes you. I have a similar communication style as you do. We're very emotive and we express ourselves easily. What if someone listening says, "I'm not an extrovert. I'm not necessarily comfortable with having ... or I don't even feel like I have the ability to be an animated person, but I can do the work. I'm passionate about it. It just maybe doesn't present itself in the same way," what advice would you give them, or do you even think that it is necessary to present yourself in that way to get hired?

Missy Stella:

That is a fabulous question, and I definitely don't think it is necessary at all. In fact, I have a team of five direct reports, and I'm probably the loudest one on the whole team, and quite a few of my direct reports are a lot more reserved, but how they deliver the product of their work, how they show up, getting it in on time or in advance, asking for more, things like that. You don't have to be as emotive or as louder. And in fact, sometimes the loudest person in the room isn't the person that gets the job. It's the person that shows up as authentically as themselves.

When we coach people before an interview, there's something called the STAR interview method, and there's a section of that when we're coaching candidates in an interview, it's how they present their work. And it doesn't mean that they have to have a ton of enthusiasm or energy or loud annotations to their voice. It means does the passion for what they do come through authentically to who they are? Can they talk in detail? Can they explain? Do they show enthusiasm in how it is for them? I think just being authentically yourself and showing up in the best version of yourself in whoever you are, that's all you need to worry about.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Beautiful. I think that deserves an underline and an asterisk, an exclamation point, showing up authentically as who you are and letting that shine through. See, recruiters like Missy, y'all, who are savvy, they've seen it all, been there, done that, they know even if you're trying to hide behind what I call the mask. There's some subtleties that can show up in other ways.

Don't come in and think you have to imitate someone or impersonate somebody because you think someone else, Billy, got hired and Billy has a certain kind of personality, so I have to act like Billy, because the thing about that is, say you do that and you successfully do get hired under that guise, then guess what? When you get on the job and Billy's not showing up because it's going to be hard to keep Billy up now all those times after you get hired. Your real self's going to show up, and if it's not who you are and it's not consistent with what the hiring organization thought they were getting, it's just not a win-win. Be comfortable in your own skin and have recruiters like Missy help you.

Missy, as we are closing up, tell us about how you all work with a candidate. When you say we coach them and that STAR method you mentioned, what is that all about?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. When candidates come to an organization like LaSalle Network or any other staffing organization, for a living, the people that you are talking to do nothing but talk to people in the market. All we do day in and day out for a living is talk to hiring managers looking to hire and candidates looking for work. Our skills are in understanding what the market looks like and how to help you stand out just a little bit more.

If a candidate comes to us and says, "Hey, I'm open to new work opportunities," or what have you, we set up an initial intake with them where we just get to know them a little bit more, get to know their skill sets, and we help coach them on, "You might want this kind of a role, but what about this kind or this kind or this kind?"" We help open up a little bit more to what else could be out there. And then we try and puzzle piece, if you will, what could this person be, what kind of a company, because we're talking to companies and candidates, et cetera. And then, if we present the resume of the candidate and they end up getting an interview with one of our clients, that's when we help coach them before the interview. We're not going to tell you how to get the job, because that's on you, exactly how you said of being authentically yourself and showing up as yourself.

We're never going to tell someone what they have to say or shouldn't say, but we'll help coach, "If a client asks this kind of a question, how would you respond?" And then we can help coach them on some nuances of responding just to help them, forgive me, to say, sell themselves in the best way possible so that they get the job that's right for them. Those are the resources that we provide, and while I don't call this resume consultants by any means, sometimes we'll say, "Hey, on your resume, maybe move this here and try to move that there," what have you. We're not resume consultants, because there's people who do that for a living specifically, but we just try and help a candidate stand out just a little bit more to help them maybe get to that next opportunity potentially.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Is there a fee structure for you? Is there a sliding scale, or do I just call and talk to someone like you. Again, depending on where I am in my career, because all the listeners are not going to be in school, some of you all are already in your careers, do they reach out and say, "I'd like some help," and you all talk to them and set up a plan, or how does that work?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. That's a fabulous question. We are a completely free service to every candidate we work with. Yes, the candidate can simply email over a resume, reply to a role that's on our website, or reach out to one of the recruiters on LinkedIn, or call our office and ask to speak to a recruiter who works on a certain team. We are a completely free service, so if we do end up getting a job opportunity for a candidate, they don't owe us anything. But the reason why we're free is because we cannot guarantee employment. Since we are only paid by our clients, we don't choose who the client hires. We do our best to present who we think are the best fit candidates for the position the client is looking to hire for, but at the end of the day, we don't choose who the client hires.

It's a good and a bad thing of we don't charge anything, completely free, but that's because we can't guarantee employment. And most staffing firms out there that are set up in the creative and marketing space, like a Aquent or a Creative Circle or any of the other creative and marketing staffing firms out there, are structured in a very similar way, where it is a free service to the candidate, what they provide, because they can't guarantee employment. I always advise the candidates, "Use all of your resources," like dating. As much as people might hate the dating apps, that's where everyone goes. It's a put yourself out there in all the different ways and eventually something will click.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Got it. Speaking of apps, I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about AI. In your seat at the big table of the careers and advertising, when you all are having these conversations, where is AI fitting into this mix, and again, how can it be utilized, or how are people perhaps utilizing it as a tool to help them in their career searches that you may have seen or been a witness to?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. One way I've seen AI being used for candidates in their job search is one thing I've told candidates since I started staffing and recruiting before AI was even a thing, is to tailor your resume to a certain position. Obviously, never lie about what you did or lie about the level of the company you were, but you can tailor your resume with certain keywords or things that are going to make you stand out. A lot of times, what I've seen specifically with ChatGPT is simply putting in a job description along with your resume and saying, "Hey, ChatGPT, how would you tweak my resume to most fit what this position might be looking for?" It's taking the information that already exists and mixes it all together. I've seen that a lot. I've seen folks use AI to help with thank you notes. That is something that might be a little bit old school, but always send a thank you note-

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

I love it, yes.

Missy Stella:

... always send a thank you note after an interview or any kind of interaction. It goes a long way. It doesn't necessarily matter what's in the thank you note half the time. It's the fact that you did it people [inaudible 00:24:31].

Yes. And if someone is looking for a career within digital marketing specifically, I think understanding how marketers can use AI, be it in digital design, copywriting, things like that, just understanding what you do have at your fingertips and understanding it is great. There are no experts right now, and I know originally there was some fear that AI could take over all these jobs. Not at all. Someone has to have the idea first. I think it moves folks in marketing and creative and design to utilize that to help advance them without fear that it's going to take over their job because it's simply not.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Yes, it's not. Oh, that's good. And so, listeners, again, you hear that? It's not going to take over. Use it as a tool to enhance and elevate what you're doing. A couple more questions, Missy. Again, thank you so much for taking time on this Catch Me If You Can. And you know what? We really are talking about that in a very facetious sense, because we are all about catching it all and it's like a big net, and what we're giving you all are all these gifts that I hope you're taking up and picking up and putting to use because these are all wonderfully inspiring, if nothing else, opportunities.

If you're hearing us, we're telling you opportunities exist, perseverance, tenacity, showing up. Those things are going to set you apart. Don't be discouraged because it may take you a few times, as Missy's saying, it's not going to be guaranteed if you get a recruiter, but why not go for it and try that out? If it's free and it's for you to utilize, go on those interviews, and even if you don't get hired, as Missy is saying, it can still serve as a learning opportunity that you can continue to build your skill set.

Missy, when you are looking at this job market now, are you seeing that people are going, "No, we're not hiring anybody," and you all are just at a dearth in terms of having to find candidates, or is the opposite true, where you're saying they're trying to fill these roles and you all are trying to find people who can fill them, or are you somewhere in the middle, where there may be some needs and there's a slow stick?" How does the job landscape world, I guess is what I'm asking, looking like?

Missy Stella:

Yes, Shanita, thank you so much for asking that. Ironically, I just spoke to a client about that on Friday morning when they asked me what's the market looking like? The jobs report for the month of March came out last week, and in the month of March, the economy added over 220,000 jobs, and the economists were projecting that, in March, they would add 130 to 140. The job market is incredibly-

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

What? Say that number again, say that again.

Missy Stella:

Yes, ma'am. Over 220,000 jobs were added, and the economists were projecting 130 to 140. It's, I'm not a math gal, 50% more, something like that, 40% more, an extremely healthy number. The unemployment rate in the country is still at 4.2%, which is incredibly healthy as well. There are plenty of jobs out there. I think the challenge that a lot of folks are seeing are maybe some of the jobs weren't as ideal as maybe a few years ago when fully remote was really something that was popular, and a lot of organizations are back on-site now, so you're seeing a lot of job postings requiring people to be back on site. And so I think we're seeing a shift in just what employers are looking for.

But to answer your question, there are a ton of job opportunities. The industries and the types of roles just might be a little bit different, but there are a lot of job opportunities. And one thing that I tell folks within marketing specifically is be open to freelance and contract because that is a lot of the roles we're seeing right now, where it's a great opportunity to get your foot in the door. And if you do a great job, you're tenacious, you take initiative, all these things, the job opportunity opens up full-time at the company, they're going to put you in that role before they ever post it online. It's a great opportunity to get your foot in the door.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Excellent. Excellent. And speaking of getting the foot in your door, to close this out, what would you say to your 18, 19, 20-year-old self, Missy, that now that you are on the other side, as you mentioned, not only of the desk as a recruiter versus as an advertising aficionado, which I know you were and still are in a different capacity, is there anything you would say to yourself at that age based on what you know now that you may have done more of, less of, differently, or maybe you would've done it exactly the same? Just curious.

Missy Stella:

That is a great question. The one thing, other than applying for an internship, but as I shared, I didn't have the ability to do that during that time, is to follow up, a thank you note, thank you so much, a LinkedIn request, just a thank you. I did not do that enough. There are so many professors I wish I would've thanked more, I wish I would've followed up more, I wish I would've continued a relationship with because of the connectivity that I could have had. I didn't learn that until my mid-twenties, and how important it is, again, when we talk about your name preceding you. A person will always remember how you make them feel and the respect that you give. And so, in terms of how I got to where I'm at, wouldn't have changed a thing, but I definitely think that I did not value enough a thank you, a follow-up, an appreciation, even a handwritten note, just something that stands you out just a little bit more. It truly goes a long way.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Yes. That's beautiful. You can still do it, Missy. I just got a note from one of my former students on LinkedIn, very heartfelt. She's in New York and she's got a big job now. She's going to be a group director. And it was really sincere, and this is years later. She graduated at least seven, eight years ago now, I think. And it really touched my heart. I do agree with you that doing the follow-up is important, but it's never too late, because even though it's all these years later from this student, it still touched me and I appreciated it. If they're still with us, if they're still on the planet, think about it. Send it to them.

Missy Stella:

That's actually a great idea. There are two professors that I should do that for, so thank you. Thank you.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

We love it. We love it. And I love you, Missy. This has been great.

Missy Stella:

Thank you.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Thank you so much for taking the time out and sharing all of these rich nuggets. For listeners, how do they get in touch with you? What is your information that you can share? LinkedIn, your website, et cetera? And that way, they can follow up?

Missy Stella:

Absolutely. Absolutely. You can find me on LinkedIn, Missy Stella. I work for an organization called LaSalle Network. You can simply connect with me there, send me an InMail, I'll forward you my contact information. My email at work is just mstella@lasallenetwork.com, but LinkedIn's usually the easiest way. Feel free. Absolutely would welcome it.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Excellent. That's why I I said this is Missy Stella, we can add an R to that last name to make her stellar, which this interview, this conversation has been. Thank you again so much for sharing.

This has been another special edition of the Marketing Insights Podcast, this one entitled Catch Me If You Can. Until next time, which will be our best time, this is Shanita Baraka Akintonde. I am signing off. Look for me on LinkedIn as well under Professor Shanita Akintonde or on Twitter at _ShanitaSpeaks. I will reach out to you as well if you reach out to me, and ask me any questions if you want to follow up on this or any other of our conversations. Take care, everybody. Bye-bye.

Missy Stella:

Thank you so much.

Shanita Baraka Akitonde:

Thanks, Missy.